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Post by garrick on Jan 5, 2017 11:22:50 GMT
I had a chat with everybody who was at ELG last night and it is looking like we will be running with option 1 (Use new Game Rules but stick with current League rules) for at least Season 31 and the Chaos Cup. Please, if anybody can spot a problem with option 1 can they raise it here or by email as soon as possible. Hurrah! (Will miss the Wizard )
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Post by HumptyTrump on Jan 5, 2017 16:20:45 GMT
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Post by garrick on Jan 5, 2017 18:40:24 GMT
After extensive discussion with Ralph there are two areas where a general consensus would help: 1) Special Play Cards These are the new ones that came with the new 2016 boxed set and I am assuming everybody is OK with these replacing the ones in the CRP (LRB6) rules. There are two options to use them in the new league rules: A) Draw 1-4 Special Play Cards as part of the pre-match sequence. B) Buy Special Play Cards at 100k each as Inducements. Option A (with or without option B) will mean that Special Play Cards will be used in every League and Cup game played whilst option B on its own would mean Special Play Cards would only be used when a coach specifically chose Special Play Cards as an inducement. If we adopt option A then all coaches will have to have a copy of the new Special Play Cards, option B would mean that only those coaches who wished to use them as an Inducement option would require to have a copy of them. These cards are currently only available in the new 2016 boxed set. 2) Wizards Wizards are not an option in the Inducements detailed in the new DZ supplement, they may be an option in future GW supplements and the NAF have already reinstated them in their official NAF Rules for Tournaments from 1st Feb 2017. Wizards are a non-inducement option in the new DZ supplement: "The winner of the Dungeonbowl, for example, gets to add a Wizard to their permanent coaching staff for the duration of the following season". Wizards previously provided a regularly used inducement in ELG when coaches faced significantly higher TV teams and proved to be a good leveller in what would otherwise have been mismatched games. So the consensus sought is: 1) Should we implement Special Play Cards in every League and Cup match or only as an Inducement option? 2) Should we follow the NAF's lead and reinstate Wizards as an Inducement option? Many thanks, Graham
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Post by HumptyTrump on Jan 9, 2017 9:42:14 GMT
More on Special Play Cards: (from www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=43544)Not only have the decks changed names but some cards are not included and, what may be the decider, some cards have been changed. e.g. Kid Gloves Old Text: For the remainder of the game, all armour breaks against your team by a selected opposing player from fouling or blocking will be treated as Stunned results without this player actually rolling to see an injury result. New Text: Pick an opposing player. For the remainder of the game, that player cannot Foul, and cannot give assists to blocks or fouls. Not exactly a minor change.
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Post by HumptyTrump on Jan 12, 2017 10:01:15 GMT
The BB2016 cards
Card Name Timing Effect Random Events 1 ♦ Rakarth's Curse of Petty Spite - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players take an Action. - Pick an opposing player. For the remainder of this game, your opponent cannot re-roll any dice rolls for that player, whether through team re-rolls or skill re-rolls. 2 ♦ Get 'em Lads! - Play at the start of any of your turns, before any of your players takes an Action. You can only play this if one of your players suffered an injury in your opponent's previous turn. - For this turn, each of your players gains +1 ST. 3 ♦ Bad Habits - Play at the start of the game, immediately before the first kick-off. - Roll a D3. Your opponent loses that man team re-rolls for the first half of this game. 4 ♦ Iron Man - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players take an Action. - Pick a player on your team. For the remainder of the game, any rolls on the Injury table against that player are treated as Stunned results. 5 ♦ Kid Gloves - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players take an Action. - Pick an opposing player. For the remainder of the game, that player cannot Foul, and cannot give assists to blocks or fouls. 6 ♦ Blackmail - Play at the start of any of your turns, before any of your players takes an Action. - Pick an opposing player who is not carrying the ball. For this turn only, you may treat that player as a member of your team. Note that the referee recognizes the player as an opponent, so you may not score a touchdown for your team with this player and the player cannot be ejected for fouling their own team. 7 ♦ Knuckledusters - Play at the start of any of your turns, before any of your players takes an Action. - Pick a player on your team. For this turn, you can convert any and all Block dice you roll for that player to 'Defender Down' results. 8 ♦ Magic Sponge - Play after a drive has ended. - Roll a D6. On a 1, the sponge's magic fails. On a 2 or more, you may move one player in the Dead and Injured box to the Reserves box. 9 ♦ Ego Trip - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players take an Action. - Choose one opposing player. For the remainder of this game, that player must take their Action first every turn or not take an Action at all. 10 ♦ Mine - Play at the start of any of your turns, before any of your players takes an Action. - "An opposing player of your choice has stepped on a mine. Roll D6 for them, and for each standing player (from either team) that is adjacent to them. If a dice scores 4 or more, the player you are rolling for is Knocked Down. Make an Armour roll for each player who is Knocked Down, adding +1 to the result of any Injury rolls. If one of your players is Knocked Down, you do not suffer a turnover unless they were carrying the ball."
Miscellaneous Mayem 1 ♠ Badyear Git - Play at any kick-off after all players have been setup and the ball has been placed, but before the roll to scatter the ball is made. - The ball scatters 2D6 squares instead of D6. 2 ♠ Hometown Fans - Play at the start of the game, immediately before the first kick-off. - You may choose the direction the ball is thrown in on the Throw-in template every time it goes out of bounds during the first half. During the second half, all throw-ins are performed as normal. 3 ♠ Friendly Fans - Play at the start of the game, immediately before the first kick-off. - If a player on your team is pushed into the crowd in this game, do not make an Injury roll. Instead, put them straight into your Reserves box. 4 ♠ Incoming! - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players takes an Action. - For this turn, your opponent must make a Dodge roll each time one of their players leaves a square within two squares of either sideline or End Zone. 5 ♠ Sprinkler Malfunction - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players takes an Action. - All attempts to pass, catch, or pick up the ball have an additional -1 modifier for this drive. 6 ♠ Johnny Waterboy - Play at the start of the game, immediately before the first kick-off. - For the duration of this game, add +1 to any dice rolls you make at the start of the drive to see if your players recover from being KO'd. 7 ♠ Heckler - Play at the start of any of your turns, before any of your players takes an Action. - Choose an opposing player. That player cannot use any skills other than those that must be used (Frenzy, Loner, etc) until the start of your next turn. 8 ♠ Rowdy Fans - Play at the start of the game, immediately before the first kick-off. - For this match, any block or foul made by or against an opposing player adjacent to the sidelines is treated as having one extra assist from your team. In addition, no opposing player adjacent to the sidelines can assist a block or foul. 9 ♠ Everyone's an Expert… - Play at the start of the game, immediately before the first kick-off. - For this game, you automatically win all Cheering Fans and Brilliant Coaching rolls on the Kick-off table. You also get an additional +1 to your FAME for any Throw a Rock and Pitch Invasion rolls on the Kick-off table. 10 ♠ Ball Clone - Play at the start of any of your opponent's turns, before any of their players takes an Action. You can only play this if the ball is on the ground. - A second ball materializes in the ball's square, then bounces. When a player crosses the End Zone with one of the balls, roll a D6. On a 1-3, the ball vanishes and a touchdown is not scored. Remove the second ball when the drive ends. Players may not pick-up, catch or intercept a ball if they are already carrying one. If a ball bounces into the square with the other ball, it will bounce again.
Thanks to ddancer for the source info.
If any of these are incorrect please inform me ASAP (so I can correct this post).
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Post by HumptyTrump on Jan 12, 2017 10:07:00 GMT
After a few chats at ELG last night specifically on the subject of Cards and Wizards the suggestion was that we use the cards for a season and see what we all think, and we drop Wizards until GW bring them back.
The point that we should stay as close to the BB2016 game rules as we can, was strongly made by a number of people.
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Post by tycho on Jan 12, 2017 19:33:02 GMT
Am late to the party, but for what it's worth, here's my 2 cents:
1. I assume GW will be releasing new stuff for the new rules every few months. I don't intend to buy new rules every time they release them, and would much prefer a consistent set of rules to one that changes from season to season. I may be a bit cynical when it comes to GW, but my view is that their reason for releasing new rules is usually not to improve the previous version, but rather just to re-sell the rules to the same people again. So I'd argue against trying to stay as close to the newest rules as possible. Take anything good that comes out of them, but don't commit to trying to take on everything they put out. 2. Similarly for the cards, I'm not going to buy a set of cards to play the game. Happy for others to use them, but would prefer that they not be mandatory. 3. Larger leagues with longer seasons could be good, but means a much bigger commitment from everyone, and a bigger hassle if someone has to drop out (and makes it harder for new people to join). 4. Wizards I'm not too fussed about, really. I don't see any real reason to take them out, but it won't ruin the game if we do.
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mush
Rookie
Posts: 8
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Post by mush on Jan 12, 2017 20:39:26 GMT
After a few chats at ELG last night specifically on the subject of Cards and Wizards the suggestion was that we use the cards for a season and see what we all think, and we drop Wizards until GW bring them back. The point that we should stay as close to the BB2016 game rules as we can, was strongly made by a number of people. I can't reiterate this enough. Half implementing the rules just leads to cherry picking and arguments, as well as making it harder for newcomers to the league to hit the ground running. We really should adopt the new core rules in their entirety. The new league rules don't necessarily fit our format so I can understand the reason for not adopting them straight away, though maybe experimenting with them in future might be worth a shot. As for cards and no wizards I'm for adopting both these new rules at least for one season to see how it works out. Either we accept change, or we succumb to stagnation. The cost of not adopting the new rules is the risk of a steady decline and fragmentation of the community. At worst if after a few seasons we find the game is completely broken and unplayable we can alway go back to the drawing board and house rule things.
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Post by malkcontent on Jan 17, 2017 11:16:46 GMT
Heya, I'm in agreement with mush above. The debate reminds me much of arguments against updating software.
Please note, this is not saying GW don't make mistakes or that I think all present rules are great. I still think Guard as a skill is ridiculously overpowered etc.
In terms of the rules for an actual game I think we adopt the most current and up to date rules. This includes dropping wizards , using cards (or rather tables written from cards, no reason everyone needs to buy a set of rules tbh) and anything else. How we run a league in terms of number of games etc, I don't see making much difference so we just pick what's best
Several reasons, just to reiterate them or add to them
1. **Accessibility for new players ** Especially if they're just used to the PC game, which I imagine will be updated. I can't imagine how unmotivating for a newbie it would be to lose a game because we use special rules.
2. **Less rules hassles when new rules are added ** Do we add this rule. Yes. what if a new rule comes out that conflicts with our special version of the rules. Hassle, more discussion. Pah.
3. **Compatability with the GW App** I like the GW companion app. It takes you through sequences, level ups etc. I don't want to not be able to use it because we use special rules.
4. **Tournaments** My understanding is some people travel to tournaments. I imagine most tournaments will run close to new GW rules. Handicap to not be using them.
Not opposed to small tweaks if we find something is stupid Broken, but think we start at the baseline.
Time to get rid of Windows 7 folks.
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Post by malkcontent on Jan 17, 2017 11:37:14 GMT
The other thing I think is whoever is in charge of making the decision needs to make it. Then organise what needs done to take us to implementation.
e.g. Ensure: * there's availability of the cards * there's availability of the new rules * everyone knows that we're using the rules (I only just found this forum existed for one thing)
Happy to give a loan of books or cards again if people need them to make up charts or help
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Post by Vanguard on Feb 3, 2017 16:48:34 GMT
Thought it was worth sharing what we're doing at WBBL, if only as a guide for what not to do. Essentially we're sticking with CRP with the additions from BB2016. Or we're going with BB2016 but including the missing bits from CRP. We like to think of it as the best of both worlds. For new players this means the rules are: - BB2016 + DeathZone + Teams of Legend (and errata)
- Slann roster
- CRP Star Players
- CRP Wizards
- CRP Special Play Cards
So this is only four additional rules to present, none of which apply to regular games as it is an additional roster and inducements. The main reason for sticking with CRP Special Play cards was that they are available to all, whereas the new cards are limited to those with the new box set. Additionally, the star players were dropped from BB2016 as no miniatures are available (or planned) rather than for any rules based reason. They're expected to be slowly re-introduced over the forth-coming exapnsions. Likewise, Wizards are expected (confirmed?) to be part of DeathZone 2 so we see n reason to drop them in the short term.
Equally, for existing players the rules are now:
- CRP + BBRC extra teams
- BB2016 roster changes (Human Catchers, halflings and Gutter Runners)
- BB2016 skills (Monsterous Mouth, Timmm-ber, Weeping Daggers)
As for the league format, we're adopting BB2016 in full. We tend to run leagues of 6-12 games so they're a better fit for us to begin with. We'll likely tweak the exact cash payouts to ensure that the re-draft will average out around 1400TV which I think is the intention.
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Post by HumptyTrump on Feb 6, 2017 15:55:32 GMT
EBBL Season 31 will be running under the following rules;
* DeathZone Cards (Miscellaneous Mayhem and Random Events) rules. * Skills - Monsterous Mouth, Timmm-ber, Weeping Daggers. * Rosters - Human Catchers, Halflings and Gutter Runners. (No Slann.) * Star Players - BB2016 and CRP. * Argue with the Ref. * MVP - Coach picks three of their own players, roll which one gets the MVP. * No Wizards - apart from winner of DungeonBowl who gets it as a 50k inducement. * Piling on takes a team reroll. * We will NOT be using the DeathZone League system of re-drafting etc.
I know that the rule changes are contentious, we will revisit them after the season is over.
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