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Post by HumptyTrump on Dec 15, 2016 10:01:17 GMT
The question that needs to be answered is: how much of the new Games Workshop rules as defined in the Official Rules and Death Zone Season One (with the errata)? From a fairly quick scan I think these are the changes but I may have missed something. There three aspects: - Basic rules - skill changes (Piling on, Skaven Weeping Blade), roster change (Human Catcher), game change (Cards, MVP nomination)
- League rules - Drafting, Expensive Mistakes, etc,
- Ongoing Position - Lets avoid having this discussion every time Game Workshop release an expansion.
Let the flame war begin.
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Post by HumptyTrump on Dec 15, 2016 13:17:36 GMT
I think that three games would not be enough for a season under the new rules so a division would be a lot larger. I was going to do that anyway for season 31.
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mush
Rookie
Posts: 8
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Post by mush on Dec 15, 2016 13:35:08 GMT
I think we should definitely adopt:
Basic rules - skill changes (Piling on, Skaven Weeping Blade), roster change (Human Catcher), game change (Cards, MVP nomination)
As that makes it easier for new players coming in from the video game (which I imagine will get those rules), and from GW shops a bit easier. The last thing we would want is to fragment the community, there are terrible stories of leagues still trapped in 4 edition blood bowl to this day...
As for:
League rules - Drafting, Expensive Mistakes, etc,
I would be pretty keen to at least give these a go for the same reason as above. It just makes bringing in new players easier. Not to mention it sounds like a much needed breath of fresh air. It might also bring those tired of the game back int the fold by adding a new unexplored element to the game.
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Post by HumptyTrump on Dec 15, 2016 14:31:55 GMT
Re: "there are terrible stories of leagues still trapped in 4 edition blood bowl to this day" I think that and "easier for new players coming in" is the core issue. Do we adopt all, good and bad, or do we lock down where we are?
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Post by garrick on Dec 15, 2016 16:56:58 GMT
My opinion:
Basic rules - happy with the consensus.
League rules - Unsuitable for the current tried and tested format at ELG as it is intended for leagues of 8, playing each other twice plus play offs and friendlies. So minimum of 14 matches and more likely around 20. So the entire ELG League system would have to be altered to accommodate the new league rules. The new rules will also significantly increase housekeeping for coaches and the league commissioner even after OBBLM is rewritten to accommodate them (if it is rewritten). It would be interesting to find out what other leagues throughout the UK are doing?
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Post by Grant on Dec 19, 2016 11:12:29 GMT
The more of the new rules we adopt, the better. I'd hope that the goal is to expand the league, and making new players rulebooks as close to valid as possible is for the better.
I'm fine with specialising League play, and using our current, proven model, but the rules from the new book should, in my opinion, be the ones that we use.
I'd also vote for adopting any and all new GW official rules as soon as it becomes practical to do so (OBBLM programming permitting), for basically all the reasons above.
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Post by Quick Ben on Dec 19, 2016 13:58:48 GMT
I'm all for using the new basic rules and updating these as and when there are further tweaks from GW.
Having had a brief look at the league rules with Ralph last Wednesday I felt that these were designed for longer leagues and would reset the teams back to the ball park of a starting team too quickly and limiting much development (which I think is part of the fun) under our current set up, but I only looked at the rules for a few minutes so happy to be told I'm wrong.
However I don't have a particular suggestion as to league set ups other than to say that if the league sizes are to be increased and a 2 month/8 week schedule to play all matches is retained I could probably commit to 5 matches rather than the current 3 most seasons, but beyond that there would be a few walk overs! Anyway I'll bow to the wisdom of the more experienced players and will keep turning up on a Wednesday as often as I can whatever is decided.
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Post by glorfindel on Dec 20, 2016 12:02:04 GMT
Is it possible to find the new rules somewhere? I'd like to have a look but I'm not ready to shell 80 quid for them yet Glorfindel
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Post by HumptyTrump on Dec 20, 2016 14:54:39 GMT
To make the Drafting work we would not do it after every season as we do not play enough games, maybe twice a year.
Also currently WBBL bumps the TV up when more that 150k is in the bank, this would have to be looked at as I suspect that saving up cash for the draft is important.
Finally does anybody have a list of the Special Play cards (or at least where it diverges from the "old" rules)?
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Post by HumptyTrump on Dec 20, 2016 14:56:00 GMT
Is it possible to find the new rules somewhere? I'd like to have a look but I'm not ready to shell 80 quid for them yet Glorfindel ditto
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Post by glorfindel on Dec 20, 2016 15:48:56 GMT
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Post by garrick on Dec 20, 2016 20:18:42 GMT
To make the Drafting work we would not do it after every season as we do not play enough games, maybe twice a year. Also currently WBBL bumps the TV up when more that 150k is in the bank, this would have to be looked at as I suspect that saving up cash for the draft is important. Finally does anybody have a list of the Special Play cards (or at least where it diverges from the "old" rules)? If you are looking to generate the number of games GW is suggesting (14-20) prior to redrafting then that is more likely to be once a year not twice and would also mean everybody has to play every season and every cup with the same team, doesn't sound practical to me .
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Post by HumptyTrump on Dec 21, 2016 17:30:38 GMT
I want to take this to a vote sometime early next year. So far we have two options;
1/ Use the new Game Rules but stick with the current League and Cup system. This will involve re-costing the Human Catchers and dropping the Wizard fro the Dungeon Bowl award.
2/ Use the new Game Rules and adopt the new League system. This involve replacing the current Cup and League schedule for probably two divisions of 8 players each and running them for 6 months.
If anybody sees an another alternative please propose it.
To clarify, the new Game Rules are: Skill changes (Piling on, Skaven Weeping Blade, Timmm-ber), Roster change (Human Catcher), Game change (Cards, MVP nomination), removal of the Wizard Inducement.
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Post by garrick on Dec 21, 2016 23:27:16 GMT
Hi Ralph,
I had a chat with Ben (Jamin) about this tonight and he suggested that we should have a meeting to discuss this which seems like a very good idea.
He also mentioned that GW may come out with alternative League rules in future expansions that would be far more suitable to the short flexible league system that has worked so well for us at ELG so it might be sensible to hold off rushing into something.
Cheers, Graham
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Post by HumptyTrump on Jan 5, 2017 9:47:54 GMT
I had a chat with everybody who was at ELG last night and it is looking like we will be running with option 1 (Use new Game Rules but stick with current League rules) for at least Season 31 and the Chaos Cup.
Please, if anybody can spot a problem with option 1 can they raise it here or by email as soon as possible.
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